Pedias in the MacApp Store

[garynunes]

Got your email that included a mention that the Pedias were in review for inclusion in the MacApp Store.

I understand the desire to participate in another distribution venue for your apps.

However, please don't "dumb down" your apps in an attempt to placate the Apple "overlords".

For example, if I understand the MacApp Store restrictions correctly, MacApp Store applications are only allowed to upgrade themselves through the MacApp Store. In my opinion the "Sparkle" or "Sparkle"-like technology, i.e., the technology that allows one to update an application from within the application itself, is far superior to the iPhone/iPad App Store updating experience. It would be a shame to lose that capability just to appease Apple.

Continuing to look through the MacApp Store "guidelines" (in quotes because the work "guide" suggests that something is useful but voluntary) one sees a number of other "draconian" rules, many of which seem to be for the benefit of Apple rather than the developer or the user.

So, I wish you luck in your MacApp Store endeavors but, please, tread carefully with respect to your applications (or, to use a an analogy appropriate to your company logo, don't let the tail wag the dog).

Regards,
Gary Nunes

[Conor]

Hi Gary,

Thank you for the concern and rest assured that we put a lot of work into automatically building two parallel versions of the Pedias. Although the Apple guidelines (i.e. restrictions) are extensive, the Pedias are still a good fit for the Mac App store (or at least we think so, we have been in review for several weeks now). Those features that we had to remove, we did so only for the Mac App Store version.

As you mentioned Sparkle can't be present in the Mac App Store version. We used branching code but changing the interface (removing the check for updates preference for example) and linking can be more complex. I had in fact thought of posting a how-to setup adding Sparkle conditionally depending on the build type for other developers, since so many take advantage of the Sparkles framework.

[garynunes]

Thanks for the response ... and thanks also for the efforts you've made for those of us who don't completely buy into Apple's "closed garden" approach to development. Nevertheless, I hope your MacApp Store review goes well (hmmm ... for someone my age the word "MacApp" brings back older, fonder memories than its present use).

That Sparkle How-To sounds like a great idea if you can find the time.

Regards and Happy Holidays,
Gary Nunes

[walakazoo]

When the Mac App Store launches, will there be anyway an existing customer can download App Store versions of their Pedia software without having to re-buy them?

[Nora]

There is no way to switch to the Mac App Store version at the moment. But they are the same program so there's no need to purchase the program again.

[Rigido]

Hi Nora & Conor...hope you a great 2011!

Yesterday I just upgraded to 10.6.6 and found this "nice" app. I don't know if they really thought it for users (it is really easy to keep apps updated) or it is just a new money source for Apple.
BTW, Pixelmator people already sent to registered people a mail where they offer next big update (v2)...just buying the actual version, again, from the store for $29.

So, first question is if you are thinking to switch to App Store or keep going with eSellerate.
Next question is just if you're thinking to go with App Store: do you think that it would be possible to "switch" actual users to "App Store" users?

Ciao da Roma.

[sjk]

Hi Rigido,

Your post has been merged with this related topic. Also see:

Pedias in the MacApp Store

[gottadoit]

I hope the MacApp store works out for Bruji. Very seriously.

To me as an outsider it looks like a huge crap sandwich for a software house or developer to eat.

I consider the Pedias to be top Mac applications and (seriously) hope your next major version requires an upgrade cost.

I have been using the pedias for a long time now and I have an obscene amount of titles that I own that I manage with it. I honestly believe the software is so valuable to me that is worth much more than I have paid for it. I am sure not many will agree with me on that.

Quality software like this should not require Apple getting a slice of the pie. I realize you may reach users you never had before and that you may sell more copies and hence be more profitable but I am frankly disgusted with Apple's near monopoly with iTunes, iPhones, the iPhone Store, the iPad, the iPod, the Mac and now the MacApp store. Screw Steve Jobs and their greedy, micro-controlling attitude and Microsoft-like ambitions. I hope that the SEC and FTC starts looking at them for monopolistic practices.

I hope the MacApp Store blows up in Apple's face. I seriously suspect that it won't. I will not use it except as a centralized catalogue of software that you can go to one place to find the Apps you are looking for and then I will buy the software at the developer's site. I don't want Apple to get anymore of my money. I am starting to regret that I love the Mac so much and may move to Linux or something else out of sheer disgust. Problem is I want quality apps and I do not want to use Windows anything. Linux has so few truly professional apps. The pedias are among the top Mac applications.

In any case, I hope it is a good thing for Bruji in the long run. I want your company to be incredibly successful because you honestly deserve it. I despise all the rip offs that are pieces of junk.

Sorry for my crankiness. I just have the taste of rotten apples in my mouth. I have moved from being a Mac lover to an Apple hater.

If this is not in the spirit of these forums, please feel free to delete this. I do not mean to cause anyone but Apple heartburn.

[Conor]

Thank you for the rant. I agree with you in many points and I am hoping for several improvements in the Mac App Store. One of the most basic guarantees, that almost all Mac developers share and we don't explicitly state as it should be taken for granted is that if you don't like our software we do a full refund; is impossible in the Mac App Store. The review system is incredibly slow (most likely we've been awarded another two week wait, on a 7 weeks "in review" process, for saying so).

Luckily, the Mac software market is well established and users are still visiting specific developers web page and buying directly from the developers (more food on our table). However, as you mention the Mac App Store user should not be discounted because of the short comings of the store itself. Our own page will continue to be our main sales channel as well as our only demo "try before you buy" download. The Mac App Store will be just another channel where we market our app and we sincerely hope that the regular Mac market will continue to flourish.

P.S. For now I am ignoring my fears that it might one day be the only available market to developers, like the iOS store.

[kbarnes70]

I hope the MacApp store works out for Bruji. Very seriously.

To me as an outsider it looks like a huge crap sandwich for a software house or developer to eat.

I consider the Pedias to be top Mac applications and (seriously) hope your next major version requires an upgrade cost.

I have been using the pedias for a long time now and I have an obscene amount of titles that I own that I manage with it. I honestly believe the software is so valuable to me that is worth much more than I have paid for it. I am sure not many will agree with me on that.

Quality software like this should not require Apple getting a slice of the pie. I realize you may reach users you never had before and that you may sell more copies and hence be more profitable but I am frankly disgusted with Apple's near monopoly with iTunes, iPhones, the iPhone Store, the iPad, the iPod, the Mac and now the MacApp store. Screw Steve Jobs and their greedy, micro-controlling attitude and Microsoft-like ambitions. I hope that the SEC and FTC starts looking at them for monopolistic practices.

I hope the MacApp Store blows up in Apple's face. I seriously suspect that it won't. I will not use it except as a centralized catalogue of software that you can go to one place to find the Apps you are looking for and then I will buy the software at the developer's site. I don't want Apple to get anymore of my money. I am starting to regret that I love the Mac so much and may move to Linux or something else out of sheer disgust. Problem is I want quality apps and I do not want to use Windows anything. Linux has so few truly professional apps. The pedias are among the top Mac applications.

In any case, I hope it is a good thing for Bruji in the long run. I want your company to be incredibly successful because you honestly deserve it. I despise all the rip offs that are pieces of junk.

Sorry for my crankiness. I just have the taste of rotten apples in my mouth. I have moved from being a Mac lover to an Apple hater.

If this is not in the spirit of these forums, please feel free to delete this. I do not mean to cause anyone but Apple heartburn.

You know, I agree with *every* word you say there. Every word.

Kind regards,

Keith

PS. Apologies to sjk for quoting the entire post and adding just one line, but I agreed with every word so thought, this once, it was worth quoting every word

[sjk]

PS. Apologies to sjk for quoting the entire post and adding just one line, …

Your explicit apology is noticed and accepted.

[sjk]

Nora's announcement: MacApp Store

Followups preferred here so there's no split of related discussion between the two threads.

[thajeztah]

Ok, my 2 cents on the App Store;

• Positive; App Store is a 'safe' place for Mac Newcomers to find software. Software on the App Store has been reviewed by Apple so should not be malware
• Positive; For small developers, Apple provides hosting and payment options. Although I'm not sure charging 30 percent is a reasonable amount for this (feel free to reply)
• Negative; No refund possible (very very bad for such a big online store! what online store does NOT have a refund policy?)
• Negative; No try-before-you-buy, no 'trial versions' (Are 'in-app purchases' allowed? And, if they are, -what- is considered an in-app purchase? ('Lite version'?)
• Negative; No sparkle or other 'automatic update'. I need to open the App Store -manually- to check for updates of my applications. If I use multiple accounts (US Store, NL Store), do I need to log in for each store, just as in iTunes?
• Negative; The GUI of the App Store is realy NOT suitable for large amounts of applications. It's slow, doesn't have proper options to discuss applications and/or recommend other applications. MacUpdate offers far better options for this (although I'm not very fond of their redesign)

Bottom line 1: Although automatic updating via Sparkle isn't allowed, would automatic 'notifications' be allowed? ('a new version of ..Pedia is available on the App Store.')?

Bottom line 2: No, I'm not very much liking the App Store, but think it's a wise decision to offer the Pedias on the App Store to prevent this GREAT software going unnoticed!

Keep up the good work!

[sjk]

Ok, my 2 cents on the App Store;
…
Negative; The GUI of the App Store is realy NOT suitable for large amounts of applications. It's slow, doesn't have proper options to discuss applications and/or recommend other applications.

App browsing/searching being constrained to a single window UI quickly kills my motivation to do it.

MacUpdate offers far better options for this (although I'm not very fond of their redesign)

The Canisbos MacUpdate Thin Safari extension definitely helps make the redesign more tolerable for me. And, thankfully, they created a separate Ratings tab after scattershot feedback (e.g. here, since they don't provide a public place for general feedback/discussion) about disliking textless quick ratings cluttering the main Reviews/Comments. I'm not particularly fond of Troubleshooting being separate but haven't noticed anyone using it anyway (when I've bothered checking there; it's too tedious to do regularly, which is why I suggested an item count be displayed if it's going to remain separate). Still, MU is much more efficient and useful for app browsing/searching/commenting than App Store.

[thajeztah]

Thanks for the MacUpdate Thin tip, sjk!